Nameless Liberty Underground: versailles controversy

An excerpt from Inorganique's post at the Tainted World forum that got me thinking on this topic:

"In my opinion, Versailles are a Rhapsody's rip-off, with modified vocals. Even if they are EXCELLENT musicians - and I really loved Lyrical Sympathy -, I think they can do much better than what they are doing right now. And Versailles is too much oriented on the vocals for me, and not enough to the instruments (guitars are excellent, drum and bass are kind of.. hidden). I also found NOBLE a lot more commercial than Lyrical Sympathy, and their new releases are too much marketing for me (like.. to release 4 singles, it's useless)."

It's time to collect my thoughts on this matter.

Over the course of my fandom with Versailles, I've read complaints from every side about just every topic you can think of. I'll indulge in a few below.

The most common complaints on the Internet are about how generic Versailles is and how their compositions steal from other, more established bands in the neo-classical/symphonic rock genre. That is usually coupled with the perplexing "all of their music sounds the same"! Some of these posts go into detail, citing that they don't receive any emotion from Versailles' composition and that even though all the work is technical and impressive they lack anything memorable or heart-wrenching. I've also seen a comment about how their metal pieces tend to be disproportionately short and their symphonic numbers overwhelmingly long. I even had to laugh myself at another forum post that said 80% of Versailles songs are two minutes too long and they are TOO epic for his tastes.

On the other side of the coin, I've also read into detail posts and rants about how much their "style" changed and how the new metal Versailles isn't "them anymore". They want a return to the days of "The Revenant Choir", where their music had bite, emotion, and passion and how nothing else after it sans "Aristocrat's Symphony" can compare. Lots of fans call it "selling out for their major contract" and some of the more accepting minority call it "expanding their tastes".

To complement that, I've also read a lot of complaining about how there isn't an adequate mixture of instrumentation in Versailles songs and that the guitars and the vocals "tend to drown everything out" and how "the symphonic portions aren't meshed with the metal portions accurately". It is not uncommon to come across a post or two calling Kamijo's vocals "forced, ill fitting, and nothing compared to his Lareine days".

I've read up on how the members of the Brazilian rock community despise Hizaki not for his cross-dressing ways but because he's "an ass" and "all of his music sounds the same". "Clearly," they think, "an ego that size should come with diverse musical talent, which isn't his natural talent because all of his music sounds very inspired from the works of Malsteen".

Some of the diehard fans of the underdog members of this band feel that it's not even a band anymore, and that Kamijo and Hizaki are the ones dragging the three of them behind like leashed dogs. "To prove this point," they say, "one simply has to look at the composition credits for the songs and see that Kamijo and Hizaki compose about 90% of Versailles songs. Tell me if that is fair," they inquire, waiting for the fan blinded with aesthetics to formulate a lulzworthy response.

And quite recently, to put the cherry on top so to speak, I've seen quite a number of nasty blog posts about Jasmine's condition. Throwing all obscene words and disgusting images aside, many are now bashing Versailles for just "tossing him aside and continuing on with their activities". In a twist of irony, the ones posting these remarks aren't even Jasmine You fans but the most vehement of Versailles haters.

It's a lot to sort through. So, where should I start?

Well, I think the most reasonable place to start would be the comparison between Versailles and Rhapsody. I haven't ever heard anything by the latter band so off to YouTube I go to listen to some random songs and see what I think about it.

[15 or 20 minutes later]

Unholy Warcry, Rain of a Thousand Flames, Holy Thunderforce, and Dawn of Victory were the four Rhapsody songs that I took the time out to carefully hear. Admittedly, I found a few portions where I thought to myself 'Didn't Hizaki incorporate something similar in one of his songs?' or 'Wow, those drumming patterns are reminiscent of Yuki's', but when I finished these four songs I already had the skeleton for this next part in my mind.

Before I jump into my judgment, let me also remind you that fans of Rhapsody that have not heard of Versailles have to deal with haters that say Rhapsody ripped off of Dragonforce and that Dragonforce is the most supreme epic power metal band that is out there. I'm not even going to get into the fact that Rhapsody came first. What I'm getting at here is the fact that every band is going to get compared to another band, and some hater of said band is going to say "they copied this from another band" just because they heard it there first. Keep that in mind as you read on.

My judgment is that I do NOT sense anything stolen or heavily borrowed from Rhapsody out of these four songs. What I am thinking in my mind is that it is possible that Versailles as a group is inspired by other bands in their genre, which is completely feasible. They have only been around for two years after all, and Hizaki has been playing neo-classical metal for about ten years and before he showed up in bands such as Schwardix Marvally and HIZAKI Grace Project he was most likely playing another form of metal. Is it possible that perhaps he was inspired by one of the many bands out there to switch styles and make compositions similar to these? Plenty of bands in every genre include passages and tempos that remind them of music that they like and want to emulate. Hear me when I tell you there is no such thing as a completely original piece of music in this world because everyone takes an idea from another group and expands upon it enough to make it uniquely theirs. Versailles is no exception, and since Kamijo and Hizaki compose most of the music it is going to sound overwhelmingly like what it is they want Versailles to become.

So yes, no more comparisons to Versailles and another band in the same genre. Genres are defined by music following certain conventions and abiding by some rules. If you categorize a band, you WILL find another band with a similar sound. When you boil it down to it's basest form, you're saying Versailles sounds like any other epic metal band because they all play epic metal. You might as well say that Demi Lovato and Miley Cyrus are copying off of Selena Gomez since all three sing a derivative of pop and mainstream music, but none of the three are the actual originators of the genre!

Now of course you may be thinking that I am a loving Versailles fan and I can see them do no wrong. That is an incorrect thought to have. Whenever I get around to reviewing Noble, you will see that I find a good portion of that album underinspiring and generic. Versailles can be stale at TIMES with their compositions I admit, but not every band pours out one masterpiece after another. Some are going to slip up and if you're going to crucify this band for something countless other bands do you have a pretty nasty bias you need to examine.

Now, moving on to Kamijo's voice, I did some research about power metal and the vocal range in general. Those who feel his vocals are ill-fitting for this type of music may be on to something, as power metal typically calls for higher vocal registries. Note that I said the word typically. Power metal doesn't NEED to have high vocals, but it's just something many of the bands do. Kamijo's voice is all up to a matter of preference, so I'll let those opinions slide because everyone is entitled to their own. However, the fact that Kamijo opts to sing his voice lower than the norm is just an example of how Versailles has a few original aspects about them. I don't find his deeper vocals to be "atrocious" or "hideous" but then again I haven't listened to anything by Lareine. So, excuse me once again as I go find one Lareine track to compare to.

[5 minutes later]

I'm going to level with you: I only lasted 42 seconds through "Imperial Concerto", but that's mostly because what I heard in that song reminds me a lot of some portions of "Forbidden Gate" and "Beast of Desire", and the chorus that I skipped to is higher in register but not that much. So quite honestly, I have no idea why people prefer the older Lareine days to Versailles' singing. I can't tell a difference, even as I skip around various other Lareine tracks. Perhaps I'm just tone deaf when it comes to Kamijo's voice :\

Compared to the vocalist of "Rhapsody", Fabio Lione, Kamijo's voice is indeed different, but I don't think that a swap of the two of them would benefit either band. Versailles has a huge emphasis on the vocal and lead guitar section of their songs, leaving all the rhythm sections to fall behind. Rhapsody keeps their rhythm section in line and treats the riffs and solos as thoughtful secondary inclusions. What the difference here is is that Rhapsody's songs tend to have more layers to peel through, and over time would come out to be more entertaining whilst Versailles songs have a blunted hook that catches on to those that look for exactly what they provide. This focus on the most present parts of their music is another dividing factor of what seperates Versailles and Rhapsody. You can't say Versailles is modeling themselves after them either, because I just mentioned two huge changes inbetween the two. So if Kamijo and Fabio were to switch bands for a day, both bands would be out of place. Whereas Fabio's voice sits upon the guitars, drums and bass in Rhapsody, Kamijo's voice is treated as another instrument and bumped to the top.

Compared to some earlier vocals they're even higher, which means what I said above was amplified even more. Versailles as a unit is not a carbon copy of Rhapsody of Fire.

That difference is crucial.

Now, to the second sentence of Inorganique's post, I will have to agree that Lyrical Sympathy was miles better than NOBLE, but I will attribute that most to the fact that Lyrical Sympathy was seven tracks while NOBLE ranged around 12-13. You can stick with a very similar sound through seven tracks but if you double that it becomes very monotonous and does not make for good listening (read: Linkin Park's Meteora). They honestly DID switch direction with NOBLE but the change wasn't that drastic. Was the music more commercial? Yes. Was the music more generic? Hit and miss when it comes down to an individual track by track basis. Did the music suck? Not in my opinion, no. It was a different sound, something that all of those that complain "Versailles all sounds the same" should take a look at.

Is something supposed to all sound the same if they all use violins and piano? So, all classical music sounds the same right? They all use the same instruments and all the compositions from those composers sounds really similar. I bet all rock music also sounds the same too since none of the members use anything other than a guitar, a bass and some drums. Get off it: unless all the tempos are the same I don't think Versailles' tracks all sound the same. Some are reminiscent of one another but others are extremely distinctive pieces of work in their own right. Sit down and take a couple of spins through some tracks and you will see what I mean.

Hell, if you want to get really into it I could say all of Rhapsody's songs sound the same. Is it true? To some extent it is, and it applies to almost every band under the sun. A band finds their core sound, and then they change it up enough to make different moods and varied atmospheres album after album after album. If you strip away all the extra frills that any band puts on their music, you're going to see that it's the same formula at work producing song after song. Does this bother me? Only if it's blantantly obvious (girugamesh) and it's not in either one of these cases. Both bands are symphonic metal: they're going to find a few formulas that work and then repeat them over and over again. They'll tweak it enough over time to show a progression in sound and an evolution in their music, but what Rhapsody did at the beginning of their career is still very similar to what they're doing now. It's still the same sound, the same process, the same band, the same success. To accuse Versailles of being "generic" means you haven't opened the dictionary and read what the term means, and accusing them of producing everything all the same means you're expecting a miracle in Visual Kei music.

And if you've honestly listened to Visual Kei for more than a week, you should know by now that is the LAST place to look for anything original.

Now to get to those that say their style changed too much: would you rather them just keep pulling a girugamesh and keep putting out another "The Revenant Choir" release after release? At least the band is experimenting with new sounds and new ways of trying to compose music, even if it's a gradual change from the beginning. Broaden your horizons some and stop fixating yourself on ONE song because that ONE song isn't even that stellar.

Is Hizaki an ass? I wouldn't doubt it, but most celebrities are assholes. So what? As long as he keeps making good music I'll keep listening. Plenty are fans of Axl Rose and he's not the nicest person to be around but who cares? His band makes good music in their opinion and they like listening to it. Fans that let Hizaki's behavior influence how they enjoy his music are fans that listen with their eyes and not their ears. Fans that also listen just because Hizaki dresses like a lolita also need to readjust why it is they listen to the music they do in the first place (or else they're eternally doomed to bitch about just about anything). I admire his technical skills on the guitar, not the copious amounts of makeup and hairspray he uses every day.

Is Versailles being led just by them two? Well hell, every band has a central figure or two. What does that have to do with Versailles? Every band also has a main composer or two. Some members just take their time with writing music, whilst others don't feel like they are up to the challenge of making good music. Ryo from girugamesh composes most of their music, but no one complains about how it's Ryo leading the band. Kaoru from Dir en grey also writes a fuckton of their music as well, but no one complains about why Kaoru is dominating the band. Buckle down and do some research, and then maybe you'll realize that all the members perform a function of the band that could indirectly be related to the music.

As an example to that, Yuki is the one that drives the Versailles tour bus and Jasmine conducts all the business. I'm betting a lot of fans were unaware of that.

So yes, the two of them have dominant egos. Get over it.

So how is the mixture of Versailles music disproportionate once again? I don't think their music is always split up into "just metal" and "just symphonic". A lot of their songs blend the two. "Princess", "History of the Other Side", and "The Love From a Dead Orchestra" are three examples of songs that blend both styles and none of them are under seven minutes long. In fact, even shorter songs such as "Second Fear - Another Descendant", "Shouts and Bites", and "Gekkakou" blend the two in shorter packages.

Oh, so the programming of Versailles music is what you meant? Are the vocals disproportionate to the rest of the package? I actually think that is true, but everyone needs to be readjusted so that point can't be argued. I do think that they need to work on making every member equally audible. I don't think Yuki's hidden, but Jasmine You definitely. Remember though, they've only been around for two years. Even though their music sounds epic it's still at the beginning of their lifespan.

Shitty bands with shitty music shouldn't be allowed a grace period while practiced musicians that make decent music need to be crucified for every mistake they make. Even Rhapsody's earliest works weren't as tightly mastered as they were today (see: Lord of the Thunder) and they needed to go through years of practice and expertise to get to where they are now. Why don't you go harass their older works for not being as good as they are now? They're still the same they were back in 1997, but just because they sound more experienced now you won't say anything? Hindsight bias.

All bands should be given time to get better and learn how to put together their music, find their own sound, and then program it better, no matter if they start out excellent. In another three years, if this hasn't changed, then that is a different story. I'm not blind to it at all, but I'm willing to wait it out and see. Just like Inorganique I too feel that Versailles can do better. That is why I'm still a fan.

If you can't feel anything from Versailles music I cannot help you, and no one can tell you what to like. That is all a matter of personal preference and what a person likes is what a person likes, but as long as you have a good reason like Inorganique I am not going to flame you for your opinions.

So, to sum it all up, Versailles is no perfect band but they don't copy off of Rhapsody of Fire. They never tried to. What they do share in common is pretty closely linked, but both of their compositions focus on different aspects of the music and create different moods. Both bands have their flaws and anyone that's going to rip into one and not find any concrete reason to do so just does it because they know they'll stir controversy. Up above I have stated where I think criticism of Versailles is accurate and when it's just complaints. Then again, all the fans that can "see no wrong" with any band are obvious worshippers that follow them only because of how they look. Stop comparing music.

That was a nice change of pace =D

Thursday, August 13, 2009

Now what is up with Versailles new album?

Monday, August 10, 2009

Letters from the Roses to the Withered Flower

Sunday, August 9, 2009

A Noble Has Passed in Chaos

I'm still screaming

Wednesday, August 5, 2009

So, is Versailles a Rhapsody ripoff?

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